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TWPT: Tell
me about your first encounter with Wicca and what was
it that convinced you that this path might be the one
for you?
LM: I was living in Texas, working
in the woman's movement in the 1970's, when a friend
and fellow feminist, Morgan McFarland, formed the American
Dianic trad (now the McFarland Dianics). I was fascinated,
and learned from her, but I wasn't ready to make that
committment. However, the exposure to Wicca stayed in
the back of my mind for years. The whole idea of women's
spirituality and a female deity in equal power to a
male deity appealed to me. The McFarlands were very
grounded in that female-male equality, Morgan having
worked in the women's movement.
TWPT:
Did you have a spiritual background prior to your
encounter with Wicca and if so how did that help or
hinder you when it came time to set foot on this new
path?
LM: I was a member of the Anglican
Community in the U.S., the American Church of England.
At one time I was considering Holy Orders into an Anglican
convent. And to top that off, one of my ancestors married
into the family of Sir Thomas More, now a Catholic saint.
As to how it influenced my approach to Wicca... well,
I was used to a very structured, very formal way of
worship. You'd think that would have made me gravitate
to the Gardnerians, wouldn't you? But when I became
a Wiccan, all past religious associations became irrelevant.
I had outgrown all that long before.
When I decided to be initiated into Wicca, I formally
dissolved the covenants I'd made with the Christian
god and spirits, thanking them for the years of help,
but telling them that I was freeing myself to move in
another direction. It was kinda like getting a divorce
so I could remarry.
TWPT:
Did you have any trouble finding others of like
mind in your community and making contact with them?
Were these contacts what you had in mind when
you set out to make them?
LM: It's funny, but I've never
had any trouble finding other Wiccans. I think I can
sniff us out -- must be the incense. And you know how
it is: if you can find one Wiccan, you'll find lots
more.
TWPT:
Has your practice been mainly in covens or as
a solitary? Did you find that there were advantages
to going one way or the other?
LM: I was a solitary for a while.
At the time, there weren't a lot of Wiccan books, but
Morgan had recommended The Golden Bough and -- Goddess
help us! -- The White Goddess. I never finished the
Graves. But the Frazer led to other anthropological
source material. It proved to be valuable as I went
on.
About 1986 I was living in Boston and visited Salem,
where I found out about Laurie Cabot's classes in magic.
I took both of her "Witchcraft as a Science"
classes, which were very interesting: she incorporated
a little of everything: Hermetic magic, Silva Mind Control
methods, self-hypnosis, ceremonial magic, guided meditations,
shamanism. I didn't go on to take her "Religion"
class, which was probably a good thing, because instead
of being spoon-fed someone else's version of Wicca,
I did a lot of studying on my own. Later, I met other
Wiccans from other Trads, which gave me a wider viewpoint
than some of my friends who stayed in Salem. Salem is
very insular in its religious practices.
I founded my first teaching coven in 1990 with Willow
de la Mer, a high priest. We were so nervy that we advertised
in the Classifieds that we were teaching classes in
Witchcraft -- and gave my phone number! (You'll notice
that Willow didn't give his -- he and his wife were
no fools!) We had a lot fewer nutcases call than you'd
think, but the couple who did call were sensationally
crazed, so we got a few laughs. Mostly, the people who
signed up were very sincere. They sort of had to be:
we were putting them through five weeks of intensive
training. We ended up with a class of twenty-two, out
of which we formed a coven of thirteen. It was a lot
of responsibility, but was worth it. They were a great
group.
I moved back to Salem in 1994 and I've been a solitary
ever since. I can't make any value judgements on the
solitary-vs-coven questions, because each has its advantages,
but I'd definitely recommend that beginners not be too
hasty to join a coven. You're likely to learn one philosophy
and neglect to look beyond it. Even if your first Trad
is perfect for you, you should know about the rest of
Wicca.
TWPT:
When was it that you first started to get involved
as an activist for the Wiccan religion and what was
it that motivated you to step up to this heightened
level of involvement with the community?
LM: My former high priest,Willow,
was a Wiccan activist. He'd been Connecticut Director
of W.A.R.D. And I've always been involved in activism
for various minority groups, since my days in the women's
movement. I was part of a group of Wiccans and Spiritualists
who persuaded the State of Connecticut to repeal a 1915
fortunetelling law that was definitely an abridgement
of Wiccans' rights to free religious practice. That
was definitely not fun, but it was successful.
TWPT:
When was it that Alliance for Earth Religions
came into the picture? Was this something that you founded
or an existing group that you became involved with?
Give me a little background on the goals of Alliance
for Earth Religions and what it would like to see accomplished?
LM: We say that the first rule
of the Alliance is that you don't talk about the Alliance!
We're an extremely boring group, is why. It was first
formed in 1996 with four or five friends in order to
do what needs to be done, quietly and on our own initiatives,
with no undue fanfare. We don't have any stated goals
except to advance the religion in whatever ways we can.
When we formed, we were tired of activist groups who
make a lot of fuss, call a lot of press conferences,
jump into situations without knowing enough about the
cases or the people involved, and generally riding the
publicity bandwagon without actually doing much except
calling attention to themselves. We have no officers,
no formal structure, no "mission statements,"
no rules or goals other than to strengthen the religion
by whatever means we can, through individual or group
action. Although some of us are public Wiccans, we recognize
the fact that some Wiccans want to work for the religion
but can't go public, and they shouldn't be made to feel
that they can't contribute. We have only one book recommendation:
50 Things You Can Do to Advance Pagan Religion, by
Cassius Julianus of the Julian Society.
One of the things we're working for now is a professional
lobbyist in Washington to represent the interests of
Wicca. If the Religious Right can do it, so can we.
I wouldn't mind buying a few Congressmen, preferably
cute ones.
TWPT:
Tell me about your desire to write (when were
you bitten by the writing bug) and what you hoped you
could accomplish with your books?
LM: I've been writing on one
subject or another since grade school. It's always nice
to finally get paid for it. My books on Wicca and magic
are intended to be instructional. And entertaining.
Too many Wiccan books are so stuffy that they might
as well have been written by the Pope. Plenty of reverence,
but very little mirth.
One of the most important books I've written -- important
to me, anyway -- is a book for older children and teens,
Spellcraft: A Primer for the Young Magician.
It's a book of magical empowerment for kids, teaching
them that they have power inside them and all they need
is to learn how to tap into it and use it ethically.
It's magic and not Wicca, because I didn't want to teach
religion to other people's children, but I did want
kids to know that they're not powerless or "just
kids," that they can feel more in control over
their own situations.
TWPT:
How did writing fit into your schedule with your
activist work and being a High Priestess? When did you
find the time to sit down and plan out your books, novels
and scripts?
LM: When you really want to do
something, you'll make the time. I was unemployed for
a while, too, which is when I wrote my first book. I
don't recommend unemployment as a stimulus for writing.
TWPT:
When was it that you decided to take your writings
to the next level and find a publisher for your material?
Tell us about the process that you had to go through
in searching for and securing a deal with a publisher
for your first book?
LM: My first Wiccan book was
the kid's book, Spellcraft. I'd been published before,
but it was for fiction unconnected with Wicca or Paganism.
Spellcraft was very difficult to sell, because in 1996,
no publisher wanted to touch a book that linked children
with Wicca or magic, even though many of them said they
liked the book. Such was Wicca's reputation as a corrupter
of children! Now, thanks to Harry Potter, I'd have a
much easier time of it. But the book was published by
a small press and has done very well, although I don't
make much money from it. I get a lot of mail about it,
even though it has the wrong author's address listed
in it. I really like that book because so many kids
and parents have told me that they feel so comfortable
with the way it presents the subject. (By the
way, readers can just e-mail me at LilithMcL@yahoo.com
or Visit
Lilith McLelland's website by clicking here.
)
I wrote in Out of the Shadows that
one of the reasons kids are good with magic is that
they understand magical ethics right away, whereas adults
are always trying to find a loophole around them.
TWPT:
What other forms of writing do you do (besides
spiritual books) and why the diversification?
LM: I like writing fiction, and
started out writing horror. My first three books became
what are now called "cult classics" and are
being re-issued, and I had good reviews and some nice
publicity for them. I couldn't possibly mix Wicca with
this kind of writing, and I wouldn't want to, so I write
fiction under my maiden name.
The Wiccan books are written as Lilith McLelland,
Lilith being my patron goddess (as a long-time feminist),
and McLelland being the surname of my fourth-great grandmother.
It's the Wiccan name that I took at my initiation. I
wanted to honor my gods and my family.
TWPT:
What are your rewards as a writer for all the
time and effort poured into the creation of each one
of these books? (beyond the money element that is)
LM: The reader feedback, and
the feeling that I'm helping the religion in some way.
Or at least doing what I can to support those who are
working so hard to establish Wicca as a valid, living
religion.
There's supposed to be money?
TWPT:
Let's talk about your new book Out of the Shadows:
Myths and Truths of Modern Wicca. With a first chapter
entitled What your Mama didn't Tell you about Wicca
I knew that this was not going to be your typical approach
to Wicca, tell me about the premise of this book and
how you set out to create it.
LM: You know, I'm not sure this
book has much of a cohesive premise, because it rambles
on so. But the thought behind it was that Wiccans, and
especially prospective Wiccans, are being cheated. We're
being cheated because so many people are coming into
Wicca with no thought of religion and no real respect
for the gods. They want to work what they call "magick"
or they want to wear the regalia and collect high-sounding
titles and be called "Lady Whatever"
or -- and this is sad -- they're just looking for a
place and a group to fit into. But they're not interested
in religion. They're buying into a Wicca that doesn't
exist, then they try to make it exist.
I think that people who actually *are* looking for
religion may be reluctant to explore Wicca, even though
the goddess-centered beliefs may be perfect for them,
simply because we've created and perpetuated a very
flaky reputation.
This book was a bitch to write because I had to read
tons of books on Wicca, many of them repetitive and
inaccurate. Apparently, there's a Wiccan Author's Phrase
Generator out there that I'm unaware of. And after I
did the reading, I set out to discover where some of
this stuff came from. Fortunately, Ronald Hutton had
done a lot of this work, letting me off the hook. So
I thought that the best way to write about Wicca was
to talk to Wiccans, especially those who had been practicing
a while. I wanted to hear what they thought, how they
were practicing, and what changes they'd gone through
from the time they'd started practicing until now. I
even sent out questionnaires to people -- the answers
pointed me in unexpected directions.
TWPT:
It was obvious that your book was permeated with
a desire to show Wicca as it really is and not give
it any candy coating at all, do you find that
the myths of Wicca have outweighed the truths of Wicca
in the years leading up to 2003?
LM: It's not that the myths outweigh
the truth, it's that no one wants to look at the truth
very closely. Like Fox Mulder used to say, the truth
is out there: there's a rich library of anthropological
and historical works.
I think that many Wiccans are afraid that if they
start questioning, the whole shebang will fall apart.
Which is ridiculous. Even if we were to find out that
Gerald Gardner made up everything as a cosmic hoax,
Wicca wouldn't die. It might change. But if you're basing
your religion on a sincere belief in the gods and a
desire to strengthen the ties between gods and people,
then nothing can change that. What *would * happen is
that many of the people who came into Wicca for reasons
other than a love of the gods would find some other
group with nice costumes to join.
Wicca is stuffed with hordes who've read a lot of
Tolkien, seen every episode of Star Trek, attend every
Renn Faire, and who believe The Mists of Avalon is actual
history. The problem comes when they think that all
this is relevant in any way to Wicca.
TWPT:
What would your message be for those who approach
Wicca simply as a means to get a quick fix in their
lives by using the magical aspects of the path to acquire
what they want? Do you think that this is a trend
that plays out in other religions as well, i.e. joining
up to get something for an immediate problem but not
delving deeper into the spiritual aspects of the path,
or is this a unique problem because of the hype and
misconceptions that color the perception of Wicca in
modern society?
LM: I think the magical aspect
is unique to Wicca. Nobody becomes a Baptist to acquire
magic powers. But if you're looking to learn magic you
don't have to become a Wiccan to do it: become a ceremonial
magician. Become a Witch. Join the Masonic Order or
the Rosicrucians. None of that has to be a religion.
Of course many other religions have members who join
to get that "quick fix." These are
the people that you see on TV, weeping and wailing that
they messed up their entire lives with drugs or alcohol
or abusing their families, but everything's going to
be just peachy now because they've handed their lives
over to Jesus. They have that brief euphoria, but it
doesn't last. That's why they keep having to stage "revivals"
to re-create that experience.
Almost nobody bothers to delve into the deeper meanings
of the religion they're born into. How many Catholics
can actually explain transubstantiation? But if you're
choosing a religion, you should be able to get accurate
information. All this traditional stuff about Revealing
the True Mysteries only to the Initiated is bullshit:
it's a control device, designed to set up the same kind
of hierarchies present in mainstream religions. "We,
the great High Priest and Priestess and our Initiated
Ones, are more Enlightened than you newbie rabble. You
cannot handle the Great Secrets that we know."
Straight out of the dark ages when only the priests
could read. Pure ego.
Frankly, I think this stuff should be the first thing
we toss overboard. We no longer need it, if we ever
did. Yes, you need to give people some religious instruction,
but let them know what it is they're working toward
and what you believe and why. Why is Wicca hiding the
supposed core of our religion from the very people who
are looking for it? Is it because there are no Real
True Secrets? Dangling this carrot of True Enlightenment
is what enables so many incompetent "elders"
to get away with some really unconscionable behavior.
TWPT:
In the chapter entitled The Image of Wicca you
take aim at those who seem oblivious of the image that
they are projecting to those outside of Wicca, what
are some of the consequences of not taking the time
to understand how you as an individual can affect perceptions
well beyond your immediate circle of influence?
LM: I don't think they're oblivious.
In most cases I think they project those images deliberately,
to provoke a reaction of some kind. Or they're operating
on false beliefs. For example, I mentioned in the book
that I had done a TV interview that I wish I could do
over. At the time, I thought that dressing in black
robes and wearing a big pentacle was striking a blow
for religious freedom, making us more visible, an idea
that I'd picked up in Salem. I didn't realize that all
I was doing was looking like the typical Halloween Witch.
Any message about religion was lost in the sensationalism.
When you talk to people about Wicca, it's better
if they listen to what you're saying, not that they
focus on what you're wearing. Unless, of course, the
fashion statement is your objective, and it is for many
who call themselves Wiccans.
TWPT:
Do you see this issue of image being a community
wide problem or is it confined to a certain sub group
within Wicca? Do you think that for the most part
it is a sincere effort on the part of these individuals
to live a unique lifestyle or is it more an attempt
for these persons to thrust themselves into the spotlight?
LM: Every Wiccan community has
at least one Disney Witch who needs so badly to be in
the spotlight, for whatever reason. I don't think it's
an effort to live a unique lifestyle because its so
ubiquitous. What's "unique" about a
whole bunch of people dressing in black and prattering
about magic and their psychic powers and awesome lineages?
They all look alike, they all sound alike. Unfortunately,
we don't even have the consolation that they'll get
bored and quickly move on to something else, not as
long as their needs are being fed.
The only hope we have is that the people who are
serious about the religion will grow out of this. All
of us went through the stage of buying every Wiccan
book we could find, loading up on crystals and herbs
and jewelry, pontificating on every magical subject,
and making unfortunate wardrobe choices. Goddess help
us, we even bought Yanni music. That part goes away
eventually. Our job, if we're real Wiccan elders or
just teachers, is to help people get past this and into
the really good stuff: the communion with the gods.
Some of us never get over the pontificating. Obviously.
We start writing books.
TWPT:
Tell me about the unique focal point that Salem
has in the current Wicca/Witchcraft movement. What have
been some of the good and the bad points about being
a Wiccan and living in Salem?
LM: I think that Salem doesn't have much of a focal point
in dealing with Wicca as a whole, in terms of a worldwide
community. Salem is too short-sighted and way too insular.
There's not a lot of original thinking. I hate to say
it, because I don't want to take potshots at her, but
the entire Wiccan focus here is dominated by Laurie
Cabot, whether she likes it or intended it or not --
which she probably didn't. But she's attracted a lot
of sycophants wanting to ride the celebrity train, and
they all believe exactly as she does about Wicca. They
never question her ideas or opinions: we call them the
Cabot Patch Kids. When they talk, they sound exactly
like her books: they parrot the same ideas and in almost
the same words. The most visible covens here came out
of the Cabot incubator, no matter how they practice
now, and you can tell that they never got all that far
from their roots. There's no real diversity or growth
of Wiccan thought in Salem, but there's plenty of Wiccan
Fundamentalism. For instance, they all go ballistic
at the sight of green-faced Halloween decorations, but
the current -- and seriously necessary -- trend of re-examining
the historical origins of Wicca go right past them.
They talk a lot about "correcting misinformation"
while perpetuating quite a bit of it. Lineage and "Celtic
heritage" means a lot to them but helping develop
the next steps that the religion needs in order to survive
in the larger context of world religions is not on their
agendas. I guess you could say that Wicca in Salem is
pretty "old skool."
It's no accident that when the media looks for the
stereotypical Witch, they come here first. But I'm glad
to see that, as Wiccans all over the country become
more visible, that's changing. The Hometown Witches
have gotten a lot more interesting and informative --
and inventive as far as the ways they approach problem-solving.
The good part about living in Salem is that Wiccans
from all over the country want to visit here, so you
get to meet a lot of people. But the serious Wiccans
are invariably disappointed here: they're looking for
the ideal community, and all they find is a shopping
opportunity or tourist attractions that have only a
marginal connection to Wicca, if that much. They even
have to search real hard to find anything remotely accurate
about the 1692 trials which, of course, have nothing
to do with Wicca at all.
You also meet a bunch of loonies in Salem. Sorry...I
mean, eccentrics. They come from all over! For instance,
many of us befriended this shy-seeming woman who once
lived here and claimed that she was a rape survivor
and a Wiccan, and wanted spiritual counseling. Turned
out that she was a flaming psycho who is still stalking
four of us (that we know about!) and that she'd done
the same thing in other communities. One of her peculiarities
is impersonating all of us on Internet newsgroups and
chat rooms, but none of us actually post there. Oh well,
such is life in the weird wired world.
TWPT:
One of the chapters of your new book deals with
discrimination as it applies to the Wiccan religion,
could you give me your take on how serious the matter
is, whether its getting better or worse, and what can
the readers of TWPT do to make a difference in their
own communities and protect their rights?
LM: It's very serious -- when
it actually happens. Lots of Wiccans see discrimination
where there is none, or they create their own problems.
Being a "victim of persecution" garners
them attention, or an outlet for that chip on their
shoulders. Which makes it more difficult for people
who have genuinely been discriminated against.
Discrimination is still there, no doubt about that.
Sometimes, the perpetrators don't even see it as discrimination
because they have no idea that there's a religious connection:
they see Wicca as some trendy fad. But as Wicca
has become more visible as a serious religion, it's
easier to fight in the courts. Which is exactly where
it should be fought. Each case that we win contributes
a precedence to help future cases, and gains us legitimacy.
If you're going to make a difference, you have to
know when your rights have been abridged and be willing
and able to follow it through the courts, if that's
what it takes. Take whatever advice your lawyer gives
you and don't be so fast to announce your case to the
world. Some of these Wiccan groups, who are after the
potential publicity attached to discrimination cases,
can make things worse: when a confrontation is forced,
you lose your power to negotiate a compromise. And sometimes
a peaceful compromise can do more to advance our cause,
especially when the discriminator didn't understand
that he or she was actually doing wrong. In either case,
it's more important to be reasonable than hysterical.
The most important thing you can do is stop feeling
ashamed of your religion. Stop feeling that you have
no right to speak up just because your religion is considered
flaky and others' religions are considered "real".
It's amazing the abuse that Wiccans take from non-Wiccans
just because they don't have the courage to say, "My
religion is just as important to me as yours is to you,
so I don't want to discuss it further" and walk
away from the discussion. Besides, most of them have
some beliefs that are just as wacky as they think ours
are.
TWPT:
Do you think that writers in general end up being
a defacto voice of the community via their books and
does that place a heavier responsibility on authors
to be careful of what they are publishing?
LM: True, and you do have to
be careful and check your references. And make sure
they're accurate references. But readers have
to stop being such sheep and believing that everything
they read about Wicca is the absolute authority. I'm
always amused when I read amateur reviews of Wiccan
books that include "This is just the author's opinion."
Duh. Anybody who writes a book or an essay is only giving
their opinion. Even if you're writing a college textbook,
you can be selective about the references you use and
the facts you cite.
Many authors don't want to do the tedious business
of digging through reference books -- it's a nightmare
because you have one little sentence in your book, but
you might have to go through a dozen books and two trips
to the library to find the reference for it. You should
have seen what I went through trying to find the sources
of "Do what you will." It was driving
me nuts, because I *thought* that I'd read *somewhere*
that it was St. Augustine, but then it might have been
Thomas Aquinas or Marcus Aurelius. Or maybe Woody Allen.
One of those "A" guys, anyway.
I've published one fluff book, the Love Spells book,
which was intended to be funny, and people seemed to
enjoy it. But the information on magic and Wicca were
serious, and any historical references were checked.
The spells were all real: one woman wrote that she'd
done the Jethro Bodine "I Like 'Em Big and Dumb"
spell three times and it worked every time! Nobody's
confessed to doing the "Boinkin' in the Back Seat"
spell.
TWPT:
On to another subject that might be a sore spot
for those in the community...Witch wars. After witnessing
what religious factionism has done to other religious
belief systems over the centuries why is it that we
as a community can not live and let live when it comes
to what we believe and how we practice our faith?
LM: Wait a minute. What's so
bad about religious factionalism? Without it, we'd all
be Catholics. Or Jews. Or followers of Ba'al. And while
these are fine religions, I'd hate to think these were
the only choices. Every major religion started as a
faction of some other religion. We already have Wiccan
religious factionalism: look at all those eclectic Trads.
What it does is give new seekers a wider choice: somewhere
out there is a Trad that you can live with.
Religious factionalism is definitely not the same
as a Witch war. Witch wars don't have anything to do
with religion, they're about ego.
TWPT:
I grant you that diversity is a good thing and
in as much as factions do indicate that there are more
ways than one to move along our spiritual path then
I believe that factions are good as well. Yet when these
factions begin to believe that their way is the better
path, or the more accurate path, or that their leader
holds the true secrets or even that they are the only
true path and they begin to actively oppose or belittle
other approaches then what's a community to do? And
having seen and experienced persecution directed
at us from outside of Wicca why do we turn around and
unleash it on each other?
LM: My answer is still pretty
much the same. That's exactly what factionalism does,
that's what factions are and how they work, and that's
how Protestantism (to name only the biggest) got it's
start. They actively opposed and belittled the Catholic
church. However, the Protestants are still here and
the Catholics are still here, so it obviously did them
no harm in the long run. At any rate, there's nothing
we can do about it, just like there's nothing we can
do about Witch wars -- except not to get involved in
them and certainly not to start them. It isn't "persecution"
of each other -- the professional victim's favorite
word -- when applied to a Witch war, it's sheer childishness
and insecurity. You can't teach people to grow up; they're
going to have to learn it the hard way. If not, ignore
them.
It would certainly be nice if we could get rid of
this "persecution" mindset.
TWPT:
On the other side of the coin what are the dangers
of not having some form of standards that let folks
know when they are being taken advantage of by the self
proclaimed elder who wishes to teach you their secrets
for a price?
LM: First of all, you'll never
get any across-the-board standards set. Second, what
are you going to do if someone violates those standards?
Excommunicate them? Third, the people wanting to set
standards are usually the exact people who should NOT
be setting them: Wiccan Fundamentalists and glory-seekers.
We need to stop impressing on new seekers that they
have to have a teacher or be in a coven to be a "real
Wiccan". What makes you a real Wiccan is
your connection to the gods, and the gods will lead
you to what you need to know.
This is radical, but I think it's time to dump the
entire "secrets" idea anyway. Why do
we need secrets? What is it that we're hiding? It's
ridiculous. If you want to become a Methodist or a Baptist,
you just go to church and find out if it's for you.
They'll tell you what they believe (usually whether
you want to know or not!). Catholics and Jews put you
through an instruction class, but they don't tell you
that it's because you have to learn any secrets -- it's
because the religious beliefs are complicated. I still
say that the whole "secrets" idea is
outdated, and in place mainly to support the idea that
Wicca is some shadowy group doing dangerous, advanced
magic, that only the chosen few can join. This "secrets"
deal started because Gardner was a Mason and ripped
off so many of the Masonic ideas. Freemasonry isn't
a religion. We're not a lodge, and we're not a secret
society. Or we shouldn't be, anyway. I'm convinced that
many Wiccans would be a lot happier in Skull & Bones.
The only secrets you should be keeping is the identity
of your fellow coveners, because discrimination exists.
That's supposedly why we take Wiccan names. This is
another holdover from the Masons, in which you swore
not to reveal anything that could cost a fellow Mason
his life or property.
TWPT:
What would you personally like to see happen in
the next few years within the Wiccan community to help
it move forward in a positive direction into the
future?
LM: More political action. More
voter registration. More awareness of what the candidates
represent. More writing your Congresspeople and making
them aware of what Wicca is.
Less ego from the so-called Elders. More help and
respect for new seekers rather than snide remarks about
"newbies." And MUCH less emphasis on magic
and more on religion.
TWPT:
Are there any books that you could recommend to
our readers that would take them below the surface and
expose them to ideas and concepts that they might not
get with the popular approach to Wiccan writing?
LM: You betcha. As I mentioned
in the book, Ronald Hutton's THE TRIUMPH OF THE
MOON is a good starting place because of his
scholarship. Read Joseph Campbell, or at least rent
the videotapes. For Wiccan history, you have to read
Gerald Gardner. How can you be a Wiccan if you haven't
read the guy who started it? But be sure that
you read some history of the Masons for comparison.
A good book for that is the last half of Robinson's
BORN IN BLOOD, even though it's repetitive
-- but it's interesting because Robinson is convinced
(and makes a good case) that the Masons were originally
the Knights Templar. But reading about Masonry really
looks familiar to a Wiccan! You'll keep saying, "So
THAT'S where that came from!" Wiccans like to say
that Christianity ripped off most of Paganism, but they
never admit the debt that Gardner owed to the Masons
and Rosicrucians.
Read as much mythology from as many cultures as you
can, preferably from textbooks and not from Wiccan books,
which can be revisionist. I love this old 1927 textbook
called MYTHS AND THEIR MEANING by Max
Herzberg, but it's hard to find. If your interest is
in Celtic culture, this is one area where you should
really avoid most Wiccan books because they tend to
lump Celts all together. There were hundreds of Celtic
tribes stretching all over Europe, and all the gods
were different because they were tribal. Most Wiccans
say "Celtic" when they mean "Irish".
You're going to have to read ancient European history
and anthropology. Fortunately, lots of public libraries
are open late.
Don't read the bible. I can't understand why so many
Wiccans have whole bible passages memorized just so
they can confront christians and quote the bible to
them. Why would you want to do that? To prove their
beliefs are wrong? Who are you to say their beliefs
are wrong any more than they are to dispute ours? For
a Wiccan, this is the most massive waste of time I can
imagine.
TWPT:
Do you have anything else in the writing hopper
that you'd like to make our readers aware of? (most
writers do but don't always want to say anything until
the project is further along <g>)
LM: At this point, I think I've
probably said it all! But you never know.
TWPT:
Lastly, are there any last words of wisdom, warnings
or just humorous tidbits that you would like to share
with the readers of TWPT as we finish up this interview?
LM: Nah. I'd just get myself
in trouble, and so far nobody's wanted to hear my superb
collection of Jesus jokes. Except the Secret Mystical
Exalted and Really Really Elevated Third-Degree-in-the-Shade
Initiates of the Sisterhood of Thalia, who regard *everything*
as a joke.
TWPT:
Thanks for stopping by and letting us get to know
you just a little bit better. Your points are well taken
and enlightening and I'm sure that they will stir the
cauldron just a little bit. Good luck in whatever it
is that you put your hands to in the coming years.
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